Electing an Latin American Pope was a political strategic move in order to counteract the continents swing to the political left (social democracy) and associated dwindling number of Catholics in the stronghold of the Roman Catholic Church and its allies.
Thus the image of a "Pope of the Poor" gives hope,....not only to the faithful
CATHOLIC CHURCH IN SOUTH AMERICA TRADITIONAL SIDES
AND COLLABORATES WITH POST-COLONIAL OLIGARCHY
Read entire transcript of this interview and highlights below this article
The Roman
Catholic Church neglected to tackle poverty and social welfare in LATIN
AMERICA efficiently, thus a political shift to the left was imminent. Electing a LATIN AMERICAN" POPE OF THE POOR "in
the medium term could ascend to a new moral authority of the continent, thus
gaining leeway for the struggling conservatives and change the Geopolitical
landscape of the continent once again, - a pivot to the right …….
For
the first time a LATIN AMERICAN has reached the top of the Catholic Church. Jorge Mario Bergoglio, the 76-year-old archbishop of Buenos Aires,
was elected as the successor of Joseph
Ratzinger.
FOR
CENTURIES THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH DOMINATED LATIN AMERICA
The
brutal missionary
quest by the Roman Catholic Church in LATIN AMERICA, during colonial times, ended in converting almost all LATIN AMERICAN countries
to Catholicism. About 560 million
people, nearly half of the 1.1
billion Catholics live in LATIN AMERICA.
Though
the proportion of Catholics, in comparison to the world
population is nowhere as high as in LATIN AMERICA, in
recent years however evangelical sects have
gained massive influence,
especially in CENTRAL AMERICA. In countries such as
GUATEMALA, these evangelical sects managed to convert half of the population to their doctrines. In SOUTH
AMERICAN countries such as BOLIVIA where indigenous cultures and traditions have experienced a renaissance, the power of the Catholic Church is increasingly questioned
and faces tough challenges.
CATHOLIC CHURCH IN SOUTH AMERICA TRADITIONAL SIDES
AND COLLABORATES WITH THE POST-COLONIAL OLIGARCHY
The political shift
from right to left in almost all of LATIN AMERICAS countries triggered violent
conflicts with the Catholic clergy, who traditional side and collaborate
with the post-colonial oligarchy
of SOUTH AMERICA.
LATAM CENTER LEFT GOVERNMENTS TACKLED POVERTY AND SOCIAL SECURITY ON THE
CONTINENT - VIRTUALLY UNRIVALED
Correction: CHILE currently has a Center Right Government |
LATIN AMERICA'S
left-wing political movements gained its popularity largely because it successfully
addressed and tackled poverty and the public debate on social welfare virtually
unrivaled. A Latin American" Pope of
the poor "in the medium term could ascend to a new moral authority of the
continent, thus gaining leeway for the struggling conservatives. The
election of a Latin American Pope, traditionally siding with the oligarchy, is
an attempt to redress lost influence in Latin America as well as challenge the
popular socialist movements on the continent.
Transcript of TRNN interview
Highlighted
section reflect what has been mentioned in the article above: “Vatican and
Latin America, Pope of the Poor”
PAUL JAY, SENIOR EDITOR, TRNN:
Welcome to The Real News Network. I'm Paul Jay in Baltimore.
The Catholic Church has a new pope.
Seventy-six-year-old Jorge Mario Bergoglio has called himself Pope Francis.
He's the 266th pontiff of the Roman Catholic Church. He's also the first
non-European leader of the Church in more than 1,000�years.
Now joining us to discuss the
significance of the choice of this pope is Matthew Fox. Matthew's written 30
books on spirituality and culture, including The Pope's War; Original
Blessing; Hildegard of Bingen (and I think I probably mangled that),
a Saint for Our Time; and Christian Mystics. And he was once a
Catholic priest, and he is now an episcopal priest and educator.
Thanks very much for joining us, Matthew.
MATTHEW FOX, PRIEST, THEOLOGIAN, AND
AUTHOR: Thank you, Paul. Good to be with you.
JAY: So, first of all, why do we all
care so much about who the new pope is? CNN's been going live all day today,
and they've been--I think yesterday they were all at it, and it's this mass
media global story. And it is usually. I would have said it's a slow news day,
but I think this would have been like this even if it wasn't a slow news day.
The media doesn't do this for any other church, and frankly either do we. I
mean, we're doing it too, but I guess we're doing it because I want to
criticize the media. I don't know. Why are we making such a big deal out of
this? What significance and power does the pope have these days?
FOX: No one does
theater better than the Italians. And so the whole dramatic aspect
of St.�Peter's
and the balcony and all of those velvet curtains parting and all that, I mean,
no one can do it better, you know, if you want drama. And so it makes good
television. One person who dresses rather uniquely and supposedly represents
1.2�billion
people who call themselves Catholic one way or the other, you know, obviously
that has drama to it and theater to it.
But I think there's a deeper thing
going on. I think people would like to feel that there's some real spiritual
leadership someplace in among our species. Yesterday I wrote an article,
actually, that was in Huffington Post about how my choice for pope was the
Dalai Lama, because I think he represents something of a deeper meaning of
being human, the search for compassion and so forth. And I think people would
like to see this in a pope, too. It's not always the case. Pope John�XXIII years ago, in the '60s, was
such a mensch and a unique person. But, you know, people do like to see--want
to project on others some leadership. And that of course [crosstalk]
JAY: Let me ask you a question
which--does it find you a little odd, 'cause it does me, that on the whole the
media expresses kind of a secular outlook on the world--I mean, it's not framed
in religious grammar as it might have been a few hundred years ago. I mean, you
know, in the past I suppose everything was framed in religious grammar. But now
there's a kind of separation between people's spiritual and religious beliefs
in life and the news. But the fact that they report on, you know, an event and
a man that is supposed to be infallible and is supposed to talk to God and is
supposed to represent a spiritual force on earth, I mean, they're very mystical
concepts, but they're taken at face value by the media. Nobody even questions
them.
FOX: Well, that's right. It's
sentimentalized by the media, and there's very little critical thinking. And
that's one reason I'm glad to be with you. And we can talk about the deeper
meanings of this.
But that there is a yearning or a
need--and it was interesting in this Pope Francis's very short talk, he did use
a phrase, something about the brotherhood of us all or something like that. So,
you know, in this time of globalization and the shrinking of the globe and the
fact that he's Argentinian and the first non-European pope in over 1,000�years [incompr.] You know, there's
significance to that, a first American pope from South America, and there's a
certain meaning in that, that, hey, things are being
de-Europeanized, even the papacy.
But, you know, it doesn't go very deep, as you say. I mean--.
JAY: The fact that the media takes
all this so seriously and the appointment of the pope so seriously, is it
partly--and we'll get to part two of this question, which is the influence it
has over so many millions of people, which I think is still real. But let me go
to part one of the question, which is: how much is it that the Vatican is still such a financial power, that, like, this is
also the appointment of a CEO, you could say, of sorts, or a chairman of the
board, at least, if not the CEO, of a very powerful financial center?
FOX: That's true. And, of course,
the financial situation of the Vatican is quite scandalous at this time. It
needs cleaning up almost as much as the issues of pedophilia and coverup of
pedophilia, and almost as much as the issue of the Inquisition, because all
those three things--I write about this in my book on The Pope's War--the Inquisition has been brought back in the last 42�years with the last
two popes.
The financial situation's really
scandalous. Just a year or so ago, the Italian government, forbade Vatican
credit cards to be cashed anyplace because there's a whole question of money
laundering in all this. And this has been going on for a long time with the
Vatican, the lack of transparency about finance.
And then you have to
understand that there's a real link in politics with the Vatican. I point out,
for example, that under Reagan, the CIA linked up with Pope John Paul�II, and they attacked together, they attacked liberation
theology based communities in Latin America and have really destroyed that
whole movement, as it was, anyway, and replaced it with Opus Dei, Community and
Liberation, all of which are extreme right-wing groups that feed, you know,
right-wing values, if you will, or attitudes of power over, of domination, of
patriarchy, and even of fascism.
JAY: Can you get back to what you
were saying, that there's a new Inquisition in the Church?
FOX: Oh, yes. Over 105
theologians--I was just one of them--have been silenced or expelled or
harassed, hounded in the last 42�years under Pope John Paul�II and Benedict. And Benedict, when he was--he was head of
the Inquisition. They've changed the name. It's called the Sacred Doctrine of
Faith, but it used to be called the Inquisition. And he led the charge against
all of us theologians.
And I list the 105. By the way,
there are several good Canadians. And one of them dropped dead. He died of a
heart attack when he was packing his bags for the sixth time to go to Rome to
defend his theology, even though the Second Vatican Council said that
theologians were free to think and there was such a thing as freedom of
conscience for everyone.
You see, that's what's really
happened in the last 42�years
is that I think we've had two schismaticals because the popes and their curia
have taken the real teachings of Vatican�II, which were about reformation in the Church and new
thinking and so forth, and linking to the gospel values of social justice
[incompr.] they've taken that and stuffed it. And that's what the silencing of
the 105 theologians means.
So there's no question the
Inquisition is back. And I sure hope this new pope is alert to that and turns
it around.
JAY: Well, let's look at the new
pope, Bergoglio, now Pope Francis. What has been his role in Latin America? There's always been this split in Latin America between liberation
theology and those more dominant and hierarchical sections of the Church that
have more or less worked with various dictatorships over the years, and of
course Argentina and Pinochet was one of them. And the Church does
not have a very glorious role, at least the hierarchy of the Church, in its
relationship to Pinochet. What is Pope Francis's history in all this, and what
does he represent? (Editor Note: Jay says he stated
this in a confusing way. The question was meant to raise the issue of the
Church in general in Latin America with Chile as an example, and then
Bergoglio's role in Argentina. To make things clear, Pinochet was a dictator in
Chile, and Videla was in power in Argentina from 1976 to 1981).
FOX: Well, from what I've read, his
actions were not that courageous under the military dictatorship that Argentina
went through in 1983 and so forth, and he's received a lot of criticism for
that. Also, he has not backed liberation theologian based communities. He belongs to this group called Communion and Liberation,
which is a very right-wing group in Italy. It's
been compared to Opus Dei. They call it the Italian Opus Dei. And it claims to be lay-based,
just like Opus Dei claims, but in fact it's run by clerics.
JAY: Just let me jump in for people
that don't know. I'm going to say--correct me if I'm wrong, 'cause I certainly
have no expertise in this, but Opus Dei represents the far
right of the Catholic Church in alliance with the far right of various ruling
elites in different countries, and it's a kind of secret, conspiratorial, and
usually up to rather dark and nefarious things.
FOX: Well, that's true. I have a
whole chapter on them in my book on The Pope's War. And it's scary
because they are so prominent in the Catholic Church today. They're appointing Opus Dei cardinals and bishops all over South
America, and now in North America as well. And Escriva, who was a fascist Spanish
priest who started Opus Dei, they rushed him into canonization faster than any
saint in history, and they ignored all the people who were opposed to him who
saw his dark and shadow side, his sexism, the fact that he praised Hitler--let
me say that again--he's praised Hitler, and they tell us he's in Heaven.
I don't know what that means.
But, yeah, Opus Dei
needs to be watched. And they're everywhere. They're very strong in the
American media. They're very strong--they were very strong in the CIA and the
FBI. The biggest spy in American
history who gave away more secrets than anyone, got more of our spies murdered
than anyone else, is now in jail, I think, for life because he ran free in the
FBI for 20�years
and giving away all these secrets--went to mass every day of the week, but
meanwhile he was, I think, very treasonous. So Opus Dei is scary. [crosstalk]
JAY: And you're saying Pope Francis
is a member of something like Opus Dei. You're saying Pope Francis is--.
FOX: No, he wasn't a member of Opus
Dei.
JAY: No, something like it, you're
saying.
FOX: He was
close to the Communion and Liberation. And they are another version that's
close to Opus--. Opus Dei began in Spain. Communion and Liberation is a more
recent group. They began in
Italy. And they are less secretive than Opus Dei. That's one
reason we know he was part of it, because Opus Dei tends to be very secretive
about who is in and who isn't.
I don't want to lock him down just
to Communion and Liberation, but it is part of his history and it has to be
looked at carefully and critically.
JAY: Let me read you a quote from
Sergio [rub@n], who wrote a book called The Jesuit and interviewed the
new pope before he was pope. And here's what he said:
Is Bergoglio a progressive, a
liberation theologist, even? No. He's no Third World priest. Does he criticize the International Monetary Fund and neoliberalism?
Yes. Does he spend a great deal of
time in the slums? Yes.
And that's a quote from this author,
[rub@n]. What does that--does that tell you any more about what this guy's made
of?
FOX: Yes, that confirms what I know.
You know, as a man, he's obviously simple and he's not a ladder-climber. They
say he fired his chauffeur and his limosine. He lives simply. He walks, takes
public transportation, even--he used to take the bus to work. Cooks his own
food, lives in a simple apartment, refuses to live in [incompr.] palace
that--the previous hierarchy had lived there. So, you know, that's a good sign.
And I suspect that's part of his taking the name Francis, because Francis was
also simple and humble. I just hope that he has Francis's deep commitment to
rebuilding the Church. And to me that would include bringing women in. After
all, not one vote of those 115 cardinals was from women. And, you know, there's
so much that the Church needs to wake up to.
And it's interesting what that
fellow said, that he's not a Third World bishop, really.
But, you know, I think there's
possibilities here. I think there are. And the fact that he's simple and not
overly ladder-climbing and ambitious would, I think, put to shame a lot of the
people in the Curia.
To me, the most important
issue is this: who does he appoint as secretary of state? Because that's the
job, that's the nitty-gritty job that gets things done and oversees the Curia.
He's got to appoint someone who's tough and who knows the games. You know, this
pope has never worked in the Vatican, which I think is a plus on the one hand.
But on the other, you know, you've got to know the games, you've got to know
the players and all that, and you've got to be tough. So I think the thing to
watch is to see who he appoints as secretary of state.
The previous two secretary of states
are very shadowy people. And I could tell you some stories about them if you
want to know.
JAY: Well, I think we'll come back
and talk to you more and we'll keep doing these interviews, 'cause, you know,
with all this kind of hagiography that's going on on CNN and other places
today, I think we need to do a lot of this. And I watched CNN for a little
while as the pope was announced, and it was interview after interview of people
in the square about how joyous they were and how happy they were, which is
fine. I mean, that's happening too. But it would have been nice to get some of
the context we're getting talking to you.
Just to end this interview--and as I
say, we will do more--what's left of the liberation
theology church in Latin America? What role is it playing now? 'Cause you have a real leftward push of so many governments.
And where's the Catholic Church in all this? I know they've had a
rather rocky relationship with just the previous passed away Hugo Chavez. What
is the role they're playing?
FOX: Well, one thing is really a lot
of these leftist presidents were birthed in the liberation theology movement,
like Silva, the great retired president of Brazil. You know, when I was in
Brazil years ago and when I was silenced for a year by Cardinal Ratzinger, I
went to Brazil to see what was going on in these base communities, and Leonardo
Boff pointed out--da Silva was at a big conference. He said, watch that guy. He
could be our next president. He was a union leader and all that. So that's part
of where liberation theology [incompr.]
But actually, if you ask them today,
this is what they tell me. They say, we used to serve the Church; now
we serve humanity. And I think that they've broken the barriers of
just being in the ecclesial system, and they're seeing the not only humanity,
but I think they're definitely seeing too the earth crisis that we're all in
today. And so they're not bound, I don't think, by just a church box anymore.
And I think that's part of the work
of the holy spirit. You know. I think we all have to move beyond church. This
is why I wanted the Dalai Lama to be pope, you see. That would link east and
west and get things moving beyond just the boxes and the tribes in which we so
often, you know, connect ourselves to. You know?
JAY: And how has he--I'm not sure
you know this, but Bergoglio, now the pope, how has
he been towards this leftward shift in Latin America? And I wonder,
you know, whether--. Say again?
FOX: He's not been
friendly. This is why Communion and Liberation is his path, you might say, or
was, and it's very much an opposition to liberation theology.
There was another Jesuit cardinal,
the fellow in Milan who died this past year, and in his will he said the Church
is 200�years
out of date. And he fought Communion and Liberation. So it's interesting. There
was one cardinal who was Jesuit who stayed with the liberating tradition of
Vatican�II
and liberation theology (whereas this pope, he had much more moderate, you
might say, much more in the middle), but he was now supportive of base
communities and liberation theologies.
JAY: So I guess one of the questions
will be--.
FOX: [crosstalk] got as far as he
did.
JAY: One of
the things we'll be looking for is whether or not the Vatican plays this role
of a certain amount of cooperation with the CIA, but this time in Latin America.
FOX: Well, which they've done a lot of in the past. And you
want to--like you pointed out wisely, there's a sentimental veneer to a lot of
what the media's into today, and, you know, maybe they'll calm down. But
remember what Carl Jung says: behind sentimentalism there lies violence. So the
sweetness is not enough. We have to see the actions and the real
philosophy behind any movement and any individual who represents a movement,
and not project too much on any human being. You know, power corrupts, absolute
power corrupts absolutely. The corruption the Vatican is in at this time in
history is unparalleled, unless you go back to the Biorgas of the 16th century.
So we'll see if this guy can really clean house or not.
But let's not put too much of our
energy there. Let's put our energy into starting new base communities, a new
version of Christianity that really goes back to the Gospels and gets the job
done. That's the real issue.
JAY: Okay. Next time we'll talk,
then we'll focus on that.
FOX: Thank you.
End
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